An Interview with Patrick J. Hayes, Ph.D.

by Gordon Nary

Gordon:  When did you attend Teachers College, Columbia University, what degree did you earn, and what is one of your favorite memories when you were there?

Patrick: I graduated from college in Boston in December 1988 and after two weeks vacation I began the graduate program at Teachers College at Columbia University. I was in that program until 1990, earning a Masters in Education with a specialization in social studies education. I thought I would become a high school teacher and I did end up teaching in the New York City school system for a while until a very tragic event prompted me to move out of the city. I taught and coached and ran a youth center after that.

While at TC I had to do a thesis and I chose to consider how the Frankfort School's contribution to social theory could be useful for secondary education. One of the great joys of my initial grad work was to do archival research on the members of the Frankfort School who were attached to the faculty of Columbia University during the years of the Second World War. This was my first real taste of working with primary documents to produce something original. I can remember visiting the president's archive in Low Library's attic and combing through hundreds of pages of correspondence that helped to secure what became the Institute for Social Research--a haven for German Jewish refugee scholars and their collaborators--who all shared a common goal: defeat Hitler's regime. Of course I knew that the power of the mind could be used to subdue evil, but this project made that a very concrete possibility for me. 

Gordon:  When did you attend Yale University, what degree did you earn, what was  your favorite course that you took, and why was it your favorite?

Patrick: My time at Yale was in the Divinity School. I earned two degrees there: the more pastoral M.Div. and the more academic S.T.M. I was there between 1994 and 1998, a time that allowed me to participate in a unique cycle of visiting scholars in Catholic Studies: Francis Fiorenza (systematics, Harvard Divinity School), Lisa Sowle Cahill (Christian ethics, Boston College), Avery Dulles (ecclesiology, Fordham University), and Joseph Komonchak (Vatican II, Catholic University of America). These teachers, along with my advisor, Margaret Farley, were highly formative, but I also warmed to historical theology through the good offices of people like Jaroslav Pelikan (Church Councils, Mary), Rowan Greer (patristics), Marilyn Adams (medieval theology), and Carlos Eire (early modern theology). Seminary isn't for everyone, and the experience I rank as among the most difficult things I ever set out to do. But I was exceedingly well prepared for doctoral work. When I think of my theological pedigree, I realize that today I sit on the shoulders of giants. For instance, Fiorenza's teacher was Karl Rahner. Komonchak's teacher was Bernard Lonergan. Even my scripture professors add to this lineage. The man who taught the Hebrew scriptures was a student of Karl Barth. And so on. The best teacher I had was probably Rowan Greer, who was about as tweedy a professor as one could find at Yale. A close second was Margaret Farley, who taught the standard course in the history of Christian ethics, but also a small seminar on sexual ethics. For these courses we all did close readings on numerous texts. For each we got a broad but deep understanding of the field.

I should say, as an aside, that one aspect of my Yale career was to work in the Divinity School library, the main Sterling Library, and a couple of summers in the Law School Library. Exposure to millions of books on every subject under the sun was an important supplement to learning in the classroom.

Gordon:  When did you attend Catholic University of America, what degree did you earn, and what were some of the projects  in which you were involved?

Patrick: When Father Komonchak taught at Yale he knew of my interest in pursuing doctoral studies. He asked if I was going to apply to CUA and I said yes. He simply said to say on my application that he had approved of my candidacy, and that was that. I earned the Ph.D. in ecclesiology in what was then the School of Religious Studies. I made very good use of the library and archives at CUA, as well the archives at Georgetown University. I always worked while taking courses--for the National Conference for Catechetical Leadership, for the USCCB's Committee on Doctrine, and for a project that was trying to get off the ground to develop a Catholic think tank. That eventuated in the Institute for Advanced Catholic Studies, which is today based at the University of Southern California. As I wrote my dissertation, I also began a heavy teaching schedule to make ends meet. I managed to produce a 600 page dissertation while teaching four or sometimes five courses at Fairfield University, Fordham University, Iona College, and Sacred Heart University over several semesters. I do not recommend doing the adjunct shuffle in this way, but I suppose I am proof that it can be done.

Gordon:  When did you serve as Assistant Professor of Theology at Fordham University, and what were some of the courses  that you taught?

Patrick: At Fordham I probably did my best work in the classroom. I served as a kind of utility infielder. I taught the basic introduction to religion course, but also things like medieval theology and an introduction to the New Testament. One day my department chair asked to see me. I thought I was in trouble for something because he began the conversation by asking what I was doing in the classes I was teaching. What he eventually told me was that of all the faculty in the Department of Theology I had the hightest number (by far) who had decided to declare theology as their major or minor. Apparently, I was doing something right. I can't think of a more satisfying vote of confidence for a young professor. When I eventually taught at Fordham's Marymount campus, which was an all-female institution when I was there, I was able to teach a variety of subjects that again made this a very fertile time for me.

Gordon:  When did you serve as Assistant Professor of Theology at St. John's University, and what is one of your favorite  memories when you were there?

Patrick: Life at St. John's University was a mixed bag. On the one hand, I was very lucky to have been chosen to lateral from Marymount to another New York school after the Tarrytown campus closed. But I was promised things that ultimately did not come to fulfilment. When my contract ended, I was disappointed to be let go, even though my contributions to the St. John's campus in Staten Island were solid. Today, it is closing as well. I can speculate on a number of things that led to these outcomes. It did not help me to protest certain decisions of the university president, but I did so as a matter of conscience. I think that one aspect of my teaching that I shall never forget came outside the classroom during office hours. One of my students came to me to explain a recent absence. Her father was killed in an altercation with the police. It was in that moment that I thanked God for whatever training I had in pastoral care. I had counselled many students in the past but none more intensely. For her, I did my job and I did it well.

Gordon:  When did you serve as Adjunct Professor of Religious Studies at Fairfield University, and what were some of the  courses that you taught?

Patrick: I was an adjunct at Fairfield University in Connecticut between 2000 and 2002. Among the many courses I taught there was a course in the Religious Studies department on marriage. It would seem that I was the only married lay person to have ever conducted the course. All the others were Jesuits. I also taught a course in sexual ethics that did not please everyone. I used a recent book on "hook up" culture that caught the attention of the university president--a good man who trusted me enough to let me continue. I am not sure I made a very deep impact on the students, but at least my colleagues were very encouraging.

Gordon:  When did you serve as Visiting Professor of Religious Studies at University of Makeni, Sierra Leone, and what were some of the projects in which you were involved?

Patrick: My last teaching assignment was something radically different. At age 40 I was at the end of my contract at St. John's, working part-time in the Redemptorist Archives, and taking stock of the prospects ahead. There were few indeed! But a priest from the Diocese of Makeni in Sierra Leone came through my parish on a mission appeal and after Mass I asked him what someone like me could do for him. His response was immediate: come over and teach. It took a year to get the money in place for that. I obtained a grant from the USCCB's Solidarity with Africa Fund to do faculty development at the nascent University of Makeni, a college only a few years old. I raised funds to bring over the university library, which today stands as one of the best of its kind in West Africa. When I arrived, I taught large survey courses and smaller seminars, but I also made site visits to many parishes around the diocese, consulted often with the bishop, wrote the university's strategic plan, conducted workshops for local tribal leaders, and otherwise got a taste for what missionary life was like. When I returned to the US I had no money left. I gave the very last of what I had to a little girl. That was thirteen years ago.

I continue to consult for the university, but I have more or less backed out. Some of my students have won the visa lottery and have come to the US. They have been a joy to me. Others have gone on to become priests or professors and are contributing to the intellectual life of a nation that continues with many economic and social challenges. But they are making important contributions to their country and I am very proud to have helped them in some small way.

Gordon:  You are currently Archivist for the Baltimore Province Redemptorist Fathers. When did you start there, and what  are you primary responsibilities?

Patrick: For the last seventeen years I have worked as the assistant and presently the archivist for the Redemptorists. In 2017 I moved the archive from the provincial headquarters in Brooklyn to a Smithsonian-grade facility in Philadelphia. It is probably in the top five religious archives in the US today. Our collections are very rich in Redemptorist history, of course, but also in church history and, more generally, American history as well. I am in charge of research and preservation services. We have a 25,000-volume specialized library that dates to the 1500s and a stock of over a million documents. In 2020 I curated the St. John Neumann museum, which is located in the saint's shrine across the street from my office. I've also worked on various films and television productions, helped on communications projects, and run our social media platforms. Every day is different.

Gordon:  When and by whom was the Redemptorist order founded, and what is their mission?

Patrick: The Congregation of the Most Holy Redeemer was founded by St. Alphonsus Liguori in 1732. He is the patron of confessors, moral theologians, and arthritics. For his work on moral theology, he has been named a Doctor of the Church. Redemptorists take all the usual vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience, but they make an additional vow to be zealous in the performance of these vows. They do so in imitation of the founder, who is known as the Zealous Doctor. Their mission is to spread the Gospel, but particularly to the most abandoned.

Gordon:  In how many countries do the Redemptorists serve?

Patrick: It is difficult to say the exact number because they are in parts of the world that do not recognize their labors. But one could say that they are in at least 76 countries, including the United States.

Gordon:  What impact did the Second Vatican Council have on the Redemptorists?

Patrick: It is not possible to say what impact Vatican II has had on the Redemptorists because, in a way, it is a story still unfolding. The influence of many of their men at the Council itself is not incidental. Father Bernard Haring has had the greatest impact, particularly on Lumen Gentium and Apostolicum Actuositatem. His own writing and teaching has been monumental. The American Redemptorists at the council were also significant in their own way: Fathers T. William Coyle made an important intervention with the American bishops to get a passage on Mary passed by the council fathers. Father Francis Connell supplied daily expertise in the press briefings. And Father Francis X. Murphy, aka "Xavier Rynne," provided American audiences with colorful commentary on the council proceedings in the pages of the New Yorker magazine. In a broader context, however, the Redemptorists have sought to make their missionary lives conform to the council's decrees in a variety of ways, but especially through the close collaborations fostered with lay people, particularly on matters of social justice.

Gordon: Thank you for an exceptional and informative interview.