by Dr. Eugene Fisher Profiles in Catholicism
Dr. Fisher: First, I would like to congratulate you, Rabbi Ron and thank you for accepting our invitation to serve on the Editorial Advisory Board of Profiles in Catholicism.. Your involvement in interreligious, especially Jewish-Christian and Jewish-Muslim-Christian dialogue over more than a quarter of a century in Israel is both exemplary and instructive to all of us who believe in the importance of interreligious dialogue today, not only in Israel but around the world. The better we understand one another and the more we interact and become friends with those of other faiths, as you have done in Israel, the more we can become agents of peace and justice in the world, a task which all of our religions call upon us to undertake. In your book from 5 years ago, The Other Peace Process: Interreligious Dialogue, A View from Jerusalem, you describe how you grew up in the United States and became involved in the civil rights and peace movements of the 1960's. How did these experiences change your life and influence you to become a rabbi?
Rabbi Ron: As a student at Brandeis University in the late 1960s, I was drawn into the civil rights and peace movements that captured the hearts and minds of students in those years. We were inspired by great religious leaders, such as Rev. Martin Luther King and Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel—as well as by famous professors such as Herbert Marcuse—to accept social responsibility for our society and become agents for change. As president of the campus Hillel organization at Brandeis, I led an interreligious memorial service for Rev. King after he was assassinated in April of 1968, and brought home readings from his writings to my Passover seder at my parents' home in Miami Beach at that time.
Dr. Fisher: What were the reasons that you and your wife, Amy, decided to make aliya (moving up to live in Israel)?
Rabbi Ron: We had spent a year in Israel together as students at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem in 1970-71, and fell in love with Israel at that time. We felt—as we still feel today—that as a Jew, this was the place where we could most fully live our Jewish lives. We wanted to be part of this great development in Jewish history, the building of a Jewish state, which would also be a democratic state and a light unto the nations. And, we felt that since it was a small country, we could be involved and make a difference. We made this move together, and despite all the ups and downs of contemporary Israel, we have found Israel to be a meaningful and fulfilling place to live.
Dr. Fisher: Describe how you became involved in interreligious dialogue and became the Founding Director of the Interreligious Coordinating Council in Israel (ICCI).
Rabbi Ron: In 1991, I was working as the director of an American Jewish organization in Jerusalem, which had been involved in developing interreligious relations in Israel. . A local interfaith organization was in crisis at that time, with many people leaving it, and some of them approached me to help form a new organization, with a new, broader agenda. So, on January 16th, 1991, the night before the start of the Gulf War, 25 people gathered in the basement of a Christian seminary in central Jerusalem to create this new council, which became an umbrella institution comprised of more than 70 Jewish, Christian and Muslim organizations throughout Israel, all of whom sought to promote good relations among leaders and followers of the main monotheistic religions in Israel—Judaism, Christianity and Islam. We worked together for nearly 25 years. (1991-2015)
Dr. Fisher: You pioneered numerous ongoing dialogues in Israel. Were there any precedents in Israel or elsewhere which helped you to conceive and shape these historic movements?
Rabbi Ron: We were inspired by dialogue processes in other conflict zones, such as Northern Ireland, Bosnia-Herzogovina, Cyprus, and even Spain. I led interreligious delegations of Israeli Jews and Palestinian Arabs (Muslims and Christians) to these places, where we learned a great deal about other conflicts, especially about the role of religious leaders as well as laypersons in helping to transform the conflict from violence and hatred to non-violence and cooperation.
Dr. Fisher: In your book The Other Peace Process, Interreligious Dialogue a View from Jerusalem , you devote a chapter to Jewish-Catholic Relations, especially Vatican-Israel Relations. These began, of course, with the 1965 declaration, Nostra Aetate, of the Second Vatican Council. Did this have an effect on all of the Jewish-Christian relations, or just on Catholic-Jewish relations?
Rabbi Ron: In my view, this has profoundly changed interreligious dialogue among people of all major religions. Dialogue is now “kosher”, i.e., legitimate and accepted. It is part of the mainstream in the contemporary world. What the Catholics and Jews began has not only influenced Jews and other Christians but Jews and people of many other religions, including Islam.
Dr. Fisher: What are the highpoints of the relations between the Holy See and the State of Israel since the Council? And what was your personal involvement in them?
Rabbi Ron: There were several high points. One was the signing of the Fundamental Agreement between the Holy See and the State of Israel at the end of 1993, just a few months after the signing the first agreement between Israel and the Palestinian people, known as the Oslo Accord, which was signed on the lawn of the White House on September 13, 1993. The other major high point for me was the visit of Pope John Paul II to Israel in March 2000 (see below).
Dr. Fisher: Please describe the pilgrimage of Pope St. John Paul II's visit to Israel/The Holy Land in the millennial year 2000. What impact did the pope's words and symbolic gestures have on Jewish-Christian relations in Israel and, indeed, around the world?
Rabbi Ron: The visit of Pope John Paul II was one of the great moments in Jewish-Catholic history and Israeli-Vatican history, which is why I devoted most of a chapter to it in my book The Other Peace Process. I was deeply moved by Pope John Paul II's speeches and gestures and especially his visit to the Western Wall, and his moving remarks at Yad Vashem. The people of Israel were deeply moved by everything that Pope John Paul II did that week. Following the visit, my wife and I—together with an Israeli film-making couple —produced a wonderful documentary film called “I am Joseph Your Brother” and an accompanying study guide, in cooperation with the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, through the good offices of Dr. Eugene Fisher. Then the film is used throughout the USA at academic institutions that teach about Jewish-Christian Relations and Interreligious Dialogue.
Here is a video of the opening of the film I am Joseph your brother part1
Dr. Fisher: In your book you speak of interreligious dialogue in Israel as, in fact, a “peace process” and “a form of peacebuilding,” calling it a “new model” for laying the foundations for peace in the ongoing Israeli-Palestinian conflict. What do you mean by this? How has it worked, in your experience? Can you give specific examples?
Rabbi Ron: The model has 4 parts: 1) exploring each other’s personal identities, 2) studying each other’s most important sacred texts together, 3) learning about the collective narratives of each people—the Jewish People and the Palestinian People, 4) Engaging in Action projects and programs, separately and together. We planned and implemented this model with religious leaders, educators, youth, young adults and women’s groups. It worked very well for many years.
I recommend that people read chapter four of The Other Peace Process which explains what peacebuilding is all about, outlines my new model, and provides lots of anecdotes about how it worked well
Dr. Fisher: Can this “new model” be useful in other places in the world and between other religious communities?
Rabbi Ron: Yes, the model is relevant for all people who are engaged in interreligious dialogue, especially in places of ongoing conflict. I have shared this model in seminars and conferences around the world. In addition, I have taught it in academic courses in Interfaith Dialogue and Peacebuilding in the program for Conflict Resolution and Coexistence in the Heller graduate school at Brandeis University (for 5 years) and am still teaching about it at Drew University’s Theological Seminary (in Madison, New Jersey) via zoom for students all over America and internationally.
Dr. Fisher: Please comments on Israel’s proposed annexation of the West Bank.
Rabbi Ron: As I wrote in one of my most important blog posts which I called “The Folly of Annexation Now”, the annexation of all or parts of the West Bank in a unilateral move by the government of Israel, in cooperation with the American administration led by former President Trump, was an anti-peace move. Fortunately, it did not happen
It was not a good idea. It would have set back the peace process and make the two-state solution--a state of Palestine, side by side with a state of Israel -- more difficult.
Dr. Fisher: How has the actions on Insurrection and Sedition in the United States been viewed by the people in Israel?
Rabbi Ron: The people of Israel are extremely concerned by the instability in America caused by the insurrection, incited by former President Trump. We follow these events very closely. I think that many Israeli Jews--who had previously supported the disgraced former president, are now rethinking their support of this madman since his incitement and extremism has led to so much chaos in the USA. Also, we are asking ourselves whether this could happen here, since we too have a Prime Minister who has incited his base for many years. We are worried and anxious about the threats and challenges to democracy both in America and Israel.
Dr. Fisher: There appears to be an increase in Antisemitism globally including many instances of violence and murder. What are some of the factors contributing to Antisemitism and what can we do to address them and reduce this evil?
Rabbi Ron: Anti-semitism is growing in America due to white supremacy movements and Christian Nationalism. In other countries, neo-fascist movements are anti-Muslim and anti-Jewish as well as anti-immigration. What can be done about this? Liberal democrats need to speak out and to work with many other organizations which are combating hatred and racism in America and in other places in the world.
Dr. Fisher: What are your hopes and fears for the future?
Rabbi Ron: My main hope for the future is that there will somehow be a peace agreement between Israel and the Palestinian people. Intractable conflicts ended in other places like Northern Ireland and South Africa, and I hope and pray that this conflict will come to an end one day too. Then we can get on with the long-range vital work of learning to live together in peaceful coexistence.
Dr. Fisher: Congratulations on your new book Profiles in Peace, Voices of Peacebuilders in the Midst of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict.
Rabbi Ron: I appreciate your review of it.
This interview was updated on 10/15/2022